Joanne O'Riordan

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Doreen Bogdan-Martin:

We're here to talk about digital inclusion and accessibility. And today we have Joanne O’Riordan, over here who joins us from Ireland. Joanne, how are you? Hi there. Great to have you with us. Joanne is a truly exceptional woman. She's one of a handful of people born with the Tetra-amelia syndrome, which is characterized by the absence of all four limbs. Thank you, Joanne, for taking the time to chat with us. We met some years ago. We met for the first time in 2012, when you joined us at the United Nations for Girls in ICT Day. You shared your life story, one that you characterized as ‘’no limbs, no limits.’’ Joanne, thank you for being here with us. How are you?

Joanne O’Riordan:

Feeling good. Thanks so much for having me on. So yeah, we've just got an announcement that the restrictions hopefully will be lifted at the end of the month, which as you might know, is my birthday. So I'm hoping that I won’t have a second birthday in lockdown in Ireland, but no, it's all going well, nice and busy. How are you?

Doreen Bogdan-Martin:

Well, here in Switzerland, we’re still with some restrictions and hopeful that we will all be vaccinated soon and the COVID pandemic will be behind us. So Joanne, I've been with you and heard your story, but for the audience following, could you share with us your story, and some of the barriers that you've had to overcome?

Joanne O’Riordan:

So as you mentioned in your intro, I was born with a rare condition known as Tetra-amelia, meaning I was born without my arms and my limbs. I'm only one of seven people in the world born with this condition. I suppose in a way it makes me a little bit unique. When I was growing up, technology was a huge part of my life. When I was about two years old, I got my very first wheelchair, or as I call it my car, to bring me around the place. So I was able to wiz in and out through the doors, play football with my peers, go to preschool like every other normal child and really, just live a full, independent life.

Then I suppose after that, I learned how to write with all the other kids. I do that by putting a pen in between my cheek and my shoulder. I suppose I realized I was falling behind because my writing couldn't keep up. Then my parents had decided from there on, they were going to get me a laptop. The school had agreed that it was the best way forward, and this was 2004. So this was the first time on the island in Ireland, that someone in school had a laptop and was able to do their work on it. So a woman by the name of Christine O’Mahony, we didn't know her. Even though she lived just a few villages over from my house, she basically learned how to code before coding was cool.

She learned how to rewrite software programs. She basically put together a software that we would now take for granted. She put together a PDF system that linked up Microsoft word to hyperlinks, all these kinds of different things, just to facilitate me to do my schoolwork. So because of that, I was able to go on and obviously have good academic success.  I graduated with a degree in criminology from University College Park and I did a study abroad program over in the University of York as well. So yeah, that's really, I suppose how technology has helped me overcome many barriers, but we definitely have a bit to go and, things that you or anyone or your listeners even may take for granted, are still daily struggles, such as access to employment, access to healthcare, access to education. All these things I suppose, need to be looked at as well.

Doreen Bogdan-Martin:

So how old when you got your first laptop?

Joanne O’Riordan:

I was eight years old. So I had to do all the ECDL courses and it's really funny because we found my old laptop and my brother wanted it because he was in need of just a laptop to type on, more than anything else, which is all its good for. He followed my old emails because he was studying abroad in England as well. And he found I was eight years old and my e-mail address was Joanna banana. I was writing emails to him about going to football matches with my siblings and eating jelly tots and all the things that were bothering an eight-year-old.

Doreen Bogdan-Martin:

That's great. You've given some examples already, but when we think about digital inclusion and accessibility for persons with disabilities, what does that mean to you?

Joanne O’Riordan:

Yeah, so I suppose there's a lot.  When I was at your Road to Addis event a few weeks ago, I didn't realize, as  I live in a rural part of Ireland, first and foremost, and the internet connection isn’t great anyway. So, I suppose naturally I’d understand, the lack of connection and the lack of connectivity, that we didn't have unfortunately with COVID. I was really surprised to see, on your panel and your event that the 190 countries where we had a global shutdown led two in three kids…didn't have internet access. And funnily enough, I was technically one of those children— only I didn't have ‘’work access’’, for want of a better term.

So I think first of all, we need to look at getting easy and accessible courses into schools, for kids with disabilities to learn how to do computers. I did the ECDL course, which was incredibly basic, I have to admit at that time. We need to work on creating a community— not only, ‘’should we just give someone a laptop and kind of move on?’’, but we need to have a community of people that you can talk to, that you can communicate with and you can ask questions, different things like that. I think, we need to create basic IT skills, at a young level, because I think it is just a priority for now and we've seen due to the pandemic how important it is to have basic knowledge and basic access to computers and the difference, that can make, and I suppose if you don't want barriers that they can create.

Joanne O’Riordan:

So yeah, just, different things like that, I'd kind of advocate. I'd obviously like a good chunk of schools to be digitalized and it to be normalized more than anything else, because I definitely was the standout, weirdo in my class with just the laptop, but all the girls loved it because we were doing, in-house tests or pop quiz or anything like that, they could see my computer screen. And if I was writing down the right answer, they would just take notes for what they would see over my shoulder. So yeah, I just think we have to normalize it and I think we have to ensure that digital literacy isn't forgotten about in our classrooms.

Doreen Bogdan-Martin:

Absolutely. It's so critical. And as you rightly noted, COVID has really put the spotlight on that piece too. Coming back to your life story, what are  the big kind of stumbling blocks that you faced, and were their technology solutions readily available to help you overcome some of those challenges?

Joanne O’Riordan:

Yeah, I suppose, I work in sports in my day-to-day life. Now I'm a sportswriter with the Irish times and it was really funny because when I first signed up to the job, they said to me, ‘’How do you type?’’, and I was like, ‘’I type with a pen in my mouth’. And they were like, ‘’it's very time precious, in the sports world’’… with the full-time with the goals you have just a couple of minutes to get your interviews and get your piece down for immediate consumption, for want of a better term. So they were kind of looking at me being, ‘’Can you type that quickly?’’, and I was like, ‘’I can type 42 words a minute just dependent on my mouth.’’

And it's still really funny if I have to go to the games, I see people staring at me going ‘’well, she's typing really fast’’. So yeah, I think , it's a tool obviously that I would have had since I was about eight years old, whereas a lot of my colleagues, they're obviously a bit older than me, so they wouldn't have had it until they were in their teens or twenties— you know, immediate access to computers. So it's definitely given me a bit of a head start in that regard. I think the connections that I've made, especially with COVID, now that I've got decent broadband, have helped me big time, you know? So, even just simple things, like hopping on a zoom with your friends, or getting a work thing established and just creating it. I suppose we have to rethink what connection means and what that entails.

It's now physically not sitting next to someone, for obvious reasons, it's about creating meaningful connections online, and just being able to enhance the connections that we have, through unfortunately, the medium of zoom or anchor or whatever it may be. I think it's just provided me with such a platform. Social media is obviously a big thing for journalists, and making sure we have the news and making sure we have access. So, overall I'd say it's a big help anyways for me and my job.

Doreen Bogdan-Martin:

Absolutely. That's great. So, Joanne, going back to something that you said then in 2012, when you challenged us, you said that you were asking girls in technology that were following and women in technology to start doing what you did in life. And that was to think outside-of-the-box and think of ways and means that can make technology more accessible to those who really need it. That challenge stuck with me. So, my question would be, do you think enough has been done so far to make technologies accessible and what's missing?

Joanne O’Riordan:

We definitely have come a long way say since that talk in 2012, we definitely have. I think people are more open to accessibility and making technology more accessible. I even see it myself— in some schools in rural Ireland, they have opened up the doors to digitalization and having all the books on iPad and different things like that. It does make me jealous when I see my nieces come in with their little iPads doing their homework. I'm like, calm down, your backs weren’t broken from schoolbags from way back then. I think we definitely are coming a long way, but we need to create a network where the people who are asking for the modifications and people who are asking for things to be more accessible— we need to create that connection between the technology companies.

Like I see it myself when I get a brand new iPhone or a Samsung or whatever it may be. I kind of feel that tech leaders and people who work in technology or design the technology as if everyone has digital literacy, which is more of an assumption rather than the norm— you know what I'm trying to say. So, anytime you get a new iPhone, you might have to Google certain things. Whenever there's a new iOS update, you're going have to try and figure it out for yourself. I always joke with my parents or my siblings when they ask me, ‘’how do I do this?’’. I'm like, ‘’who do you think taught me?’’ You know, I had to figure these things out for myself.

So I think just that gap, has to be bridged a little bit. And I think we do have to ask our leaders when they are designing whatever it is that they're designing, to make sure that it is for those who are at the bottom of the ladder in poor socio-economic areas, people with disabilities or kids, whatever it may be, just to understand that not everyone has the same literacy skills across the board. And then I suppose the other thing that I would urge different companies that when you are reaching out and, you are looking for employment and you have your employment schemes and different things like that to reach out into these areas and to get people into the company who do know what it is like, to not have basic access to different things. And I think once you diversify your workforce, you can then bridge that gap that I'd mentioned earlier about, seeing what it's like for someone in a rough part of the world or different things like that. I think it's just about diversifying your company and then your company diversifies what it sells, and its needs, and different things like that.

Doreen Bogdan-Martin:

Yeah, absolutely. Those are great recommendations for tech companies, both on the workforce piece and on the product development. We often talk about this inclusive design and so designing products, not for people, but with people— especially people that represent different groups with different disabilities or other vulnerabilities. Again, thinking back to, 2012, I remember you also challenged us to build a robot, and Trinity college had taken up that challenge. Two years later we were able to connect again and to meet Robby the robot. So I guess if I were to ask you today, what would be your challenge? Is there one killer application that's missing, something that you would really like to have?

Joanne O’Riordan:

I think for me and the tech that is out there for people with disabilities, it is generally quite good. And I think the nice thing about the tech that is out there is that everyone uses it. You know, when I got into journalism, I thought I was going to be the only one doing speech-to-text. And then obviously I hopped on and I realized that everyone is using a transcription service of some sort, obviously to get their interviews down. So weirdly I wasn't the weirdo in the corner, talking to my computer, you know what I mean, in order to write it out, everyone was kind of doing something similar. So yeah, I think what I would say, what I would challenge everyone to do is, as you mentioned earlier to think outside-the-box. But to make sure that the technology is made available, you don't have to necessarily target the 25% of the population who exists with a disability.

It can be targeted to everyone, everyone’s lives can be made easier through a variety of means with technology. You don't have to have it specialized, or you don't have to make it expensive, just because it's for 25% of the population. So that's something that I would definitely urge. But one thing I suppose that I am looking for at the minute is, I recently saw maybe like three years ago that, Mark Zuckerberg, as wealthy as he is, created a system in his house that he talks to his house and it does the things he asks it to do. We're all used to stuff like Alexa or Siri or Hey, Google or anything like that. So I think for me, I'd love to create a house or basically put a system into houses for people who are isolated, people who have bad mobility and different things like that, so that they can just talk to their house or send their house a text message. And it's like, turn on the kettle or turn on the oven and do the basic things that everyone takes for granted. That's something I'd love to do, and definitely would be mad to work on in the future.

Doreen Bogdan-Martin:

Yeah, absolutely. That, would be great. Please do work on that. I think I could use that in my house!

Joanne O’Riordan:

Sometimes you just want to sit and watch Netflix and be able to ask the house to turn on the kettle. I mean, that's what it is. It's not about the person with no legs. It's about everyone as well.

Doreen Bogdan-Martin:

Absolutely. That's great. So, Joanne, now thinking to your current function as a sports journalist, what's your favorite sport that you like to follow? What's your favorite?

Joanne O’Riordan:

Oh God. This is what gets me in trouble. No, overall, I am with the women in sports section in the Irish times, and I run a podcast hersportdotie called ‘’it's just sport.’’ We predominantly focus on women in sport at the minute, but if I had to pick sports that I was very comfortable and happy to sit in on, it would obviously be our national Gaelic games here in Ireland. But I also do love a little bit of football, a little bit of NFL. I actually, funnily enough, got to see the Swiss team playing because they had to play Ireland in some of the Euro qualifiers. I was able to see some of the Swiss team, up close and personal and I think they beat us actually. So I didn't get to go on a trip to Switzerland. I was very disappointed. No overall, football and Gaelic games here in Ireland are my number one and two. I do love a bit of American football as well. I have to admit, it does intrigue me a little bit and to see they've made some great technological advancements in terms of access to stadiums pitches, creating stadiums that have headphones in certain sections for kids who are blind, autistic units, different things like that. So yes, it's always interesting to see.

Doreen Bogdan-Martin:

Excellent, excellent. So, Joanne, you know, in terms of Girls in ICT – and we have our annual celebration,  every year, the fourth Thursday in April – sometimes girls perhaps misunderstand that the day is focused on just having a career in the tech sector. I think you're a great example of someone that has that tech background. You've moved into a career. That's not in tech, you're in sports journalism. What would be your message to inspire young girls to have that core coding basics or, the basic background in tech?

Joanne O’Riordan:

Yeah. For me tech skills, without them, I suppose I wouldn't be able to do the job that I'm doing today. The world as we know is increasingly getting digitalized, and technology is showing that it is the way forward. So I think my advice for girls would be to learn the core basic skills because they'll never leave you. And they're so critical for anything that you will do in your future life, no matter what it may be. I think just to be open and to be more aware that technology can bridge the barriers that may be denying you in whatever it is in your daily life, and to understand how tech can help you overcome the barrier and cross that bridge.

Doreen Bogdan-Martin:

Excellent message. Thank you for that. And finally, last question to all of my interviewees, what was your first mobile device and how did it change your life?

Joanne O’Riordan:

My first mobile device, in terms of a phone, was a Sony Ericsson k750i and I still remember it to this day, because it was one of the first phones to have a camera with a shutter in the back. So you had to pull the shoulder down to show off your cool fancy camera. It was the first time I could do Bluetooth ringtones, which blew my mind completely. But my first actual piece of tech that I had from a young age, actually for me was, a PlayStation one. I used to play with my siblings all the time. And funnily enough, the skills that I learned from beating my siblings at PlayStation are the skills I need to drive my car, safely.

Doreen Bogdan-Martin:

That's great. Well, thank you so much, Joanne, for spending this time with us and for sharing your, fascinating journey, your stories and your insights. That concludes this episode of the UNconnected. Until next time, let's all stay connected and work together to bring inclusive and accessible connectivity to all. Thank you very much. Goodbye.

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